SPOILER ALERT: The following interview contains spoilers from “The Last Thanksgiving,” the second season finale of “Shrinking,” now streaming on AppleTV+.
The sophomore season of AppleTV+ comedy “Shrinking” wrapped on Christmas Eve appropriately enough with a holiday episode (Thanksgiving), where this group of funny, complicated therapists and their loved ones shared what they are thankful for in their respective lives.
But given that forgiveness was a predominant theme this season, one big arc landed in a positive place: Jimmy (Jason Segel) was able to finally let go of the shame he’s felt over how he wasn’t a good father to daughter Alice (Lukita Maxwell) when his wife/her mother unexpectedly died in a car accident. Additionally, Jimmy was then able to forgive and come to the aid of a distraught Louis (Brett Goldstein), the man responsible for that death.
Segel talked to Variety about his recent Golden Globe nomination for “Shrinking,” as well as reuniting with “How I Met Your Mother” co-star Cobie Smulders (and whether we could see her again in season 3). He also touched on what it was like to cry in front of Harrison Ford (who plays Dr. Paul Rhoades) and what he can say about the show’s third season.
It’s the second time around for you with a Golden Globe nomination, so does it have a different vibe this time or is there a surreal feel to it all?
I don’t even know if it’s surreal. You spend a lot of time hoping you’re doing a good job and you spend so much time feeling like a fraud. I’ve been doing this a really long time. 25 years. Isn’t that crazy? It’s been 25 years since “Freaks and Geeks.” I feel really lucky to still be around. I feel really lucky to get to make good work that people are watching.
Before we get to the “Shrinking” finale, Episode 8 had a heavy flashback and it gave the audience a lot of pieces into Jimmy’s past shortly after Tia’s (Lilan Bowden) death. Did it inform a lot about Jimmy for you, or were these things you already had in your head?
I knew all this stuff. This is when you saw Jimmy at his worst and the hardest thing about that, to be totally honest, is Season 1 was so much about pulling Jimmy out of grief and getting back to zero. This season was about moving forward. So you’re energetically in a different headspace and you’re carrying him a little bit differently. It’s a different part of the journey to go back and show him in so much pain again.
I’m not that hippie dippy as an actor, but there was this feeling of, like, ‘oh, God, yeah, it was really bad.’ To go back to the place where Jimmy was really failing Alice further exacerbated this guilt and shame that I carry as Jimmy in these scenes with Alice. My job is to hold on to that and keep track of it and slowly have it melt away. To kind of be stabbed in the heart again of, like, ‘God, you were horrible.’ It was hard to film.
I’m guessing what wasn’t hard to film was the reunion with Cobie. There was such a nice spark between the characters and given the buzz on the internet once the episode aired, it seems like we need her back. First, what was it like shooting with her again?
Shooting with Cobie again was a dream. We did nine years of “How I Met Your Mother” and that was never part of the Marshall/Robin dynamic so it was this gap in our acting experience together. I think the reason people are reacting to it, the reason it feels like, ‘oh, I would like to see them together again’ is this is a scene where two people are meeting for the first time, but you’re supposed to have some other sense of, ‘whoa, what’s going on there?’
I think what is going on there, which is so cool and how acting works, is that we knew each other for 10 years in our most formative years, through thick and thin and becoming who you are. And then to be standing across from each other as full-grown adults saying, ‘look at us still here, still standing.’ These are two characters having been through some tough times and Cobie and I have each separately been through some tough shit side by side.
Any answer as to whether we could we see her character again?
I’m not trying to give any spoilers. But I think it’s all a reflection of if Jimmy can get his shit together.
Moving onto the finale, where Paul tells Jimmy to face his shame and fear with Alice. Is he telling him stuff that Jimmy already knows or is it new information?
I think that all of us have blind spots for ourselves. That’s been my experience in life, too. You can see so clearly what your friend should do but you will fall into that same pattern that you fall into over and over again. Yes, Jimmy probably knows who the boogeyman under the bed is, but it’s much easier to nominate enemies. So, I think it is just constantly saying, ‘it’s got to be that, it’s got to be that.’ Paul, being an amazing therapist and also a great friend, is basically just telling him, ‘you’re going to be playing whack-a-mole until you look under the bed.’
When Jimmy does finally talk to Alice, it’s a big moment that we’ve all been waiting for. Were you waiting for that scene and did it scare you at all to do it?
Yes, the answer is, as an actor and also as a writer and a storyteller, I knew I had one scene I had to nail. Every other scene could be good, but this one, how honest are you willing to be for this? How much do you believe it and mean it and how much are you willing to show it? How much are you willing to not show off? How much are you willing to not try to impress the viewer? This needs to be the most honest moment of the two seasons.
And so, yes, I felt tremendous pressure. And the take that we used, 85% is the first take. We then popped in and did a couple close ups, but most of it was that. When you have something like that, I find often the first take is the right one and then everything after that is a different skill of repeatability. You’re trying to do what the first take sounded like, right?
How many takes did you do with that specific scene?
We did a total of three takes. And after the first take, I said, ‘that’s the take.’ Then the deal that Bill [Lawrence] and I made, I said, ‘I know you can blow up the first take and get pretty close to a close up.’ I said, ‘use as much of that as you can and then you can pop into this close up.’ My fascination with film acting is catching something. I think that’s the magic of it. It’s this whole other skill, the repeatability. That’s the craft of it. You might have to do the same thing for two hours but to me, the magic part is when you catch something.
I watched that scene a couple times and love Alice’s reaction because she knows what her father needs, and she is just listening for the most part.
She’s just a little ahead of Jimmy and that’s a beautiful quality. That is a quality Lukita has. I don’t know how old Lukita is, but she’s young and she’s a really wise young woman.
We could talk about working with Harrison Ford forever, but in the Thanksgiving scene, Paul stands up and remembers he hasn’t told the group what he’s thankful for. What was it like for you to sit there and watch him do that scene?
It was just me and Jessica Williams (Gaby) crying disproportionate to the occasion and trying not to ruin takes. We also just kept reflecting on the fact that there were so many people in that room. Like the people who play Christa (Liz) and Ted’s (Derek) kids, who are young. I remember talking about it with Michael Urie (Brian) and, like, ‘I hope these kids understand what they just got to witness because it was a masterclass.’
And talk about repeatability. Harrison probably did that speech four or five times to that same effect. You listen to some of these words he’s saying as Paul and I don’t know how much longer I’m going to get to do this, but I look around this room and I think, ‘lucky guy, lucky guy.’ And you know that it’s blurring this line between Paul and Harrison. There’s nothing to do but to feel lucky and in awe and privileged to get to be here with Harrison at this moment in his life and career. I get to have that for the rest of my life, you know?
Going back to the end of the previous episode, Jimmy cracks and calls Paul and you’re on a bench with him and you cry. How do you cry next to Harrison Ford?
If you’re playing basketball with Michael Jordan, you’re like, ‘I want Michael Jordan to think I’m good at basketball.’ When you have a scene with Harrison Ford on a bench where you’re supposed to break down, you’re like, ‘I really want to be good in front of Harrison Ford.’ Like, on the car ride home I want Harrison Ford to think, ‘boy, Jason’s good at acting.’ Jimmy wants Paul’s approval, so of course I want that same approval.
In the finale, we’re supposed to worry that Louis (Brett Goldstein) may step in front of this train because he’s hit his rock bottom. He doesn’t, of course, since Jimmy shows up. But was that a talking point at all as to what would happen in that moment?
Yeah. It’s funny how writing works. Bill [Lawrence] is this way, which is why he’s so great. And weirdly, it’s also how I think how a lot of writers think. We knew that scene going into writing Season 2. And the same with Season 1. We knew how Season 1 ended, also. We have a pretty strong sense of how Season 3 ends. It’s sort of what I think is hard about writing, but also really interesting. It’s like New York and London and then you have to cross the Atlantic. That’s what writing is to me. You have your premise, which is your starting point, and then you usually know where it’s going to end. But how do I fill these other nine episodes?
What can you say about Season 3?
I’m allowed to say our words for Season 3 are ‘moving forward.’ So that’s all we really know so far. Season 1 was grief, Season 2 was forgiveness, and Season 3 is moving forward.
Season 2 was such an emotional roller coaster for Jimmy, which means you also go through a lot. Does that make you more excited to jump in for more?
Yeah, I really love acting. I love it a lot. I really love my job. I get tired by the time I’m done with something, because I really do go all-in. But I don’t understand why you would do it otherwise. I’m excited at this little break because I finished a movie literally last week. That was a lot. But I’m gonna recoup over the holidays. I’m gonna do some writing and then come into January and dive back in.
